{"id":227978,"date":"2017-08-24T16:11:57","date_gmt":"2017-08-24T20:11:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/?p=227978"},"modified":"2023-11-08T20:59:19","modified_gmt":"2023-11-09T01:59:19","slug":"when-it-comes-to-internet-privacy-be-very-afraid-analyst-suggests","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/story\/2017\/08\/when-it-comes-to-internet-privacy-be-very-afraid-analyst-suggests\/","title":{"rendered":"On internet privacy, be very afraid"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\t
\"\"

Cybersecurity expert and Berkman Klein fellow Bruce Schneier talked to the Gazette about what consumers can do to protect themselves from government and corporate surveillance. <\/p>

Rose Lincoln\/Harvard Staff Photographer<\/p><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\t

\n\t\t\t\n\t\t\tWork & Economy\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\n\t\t

\n\t\tOn internet privacy, be very afraid\t<\/h1>\n\n\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t
\n\t\t
\n\t\t\t
\n\t\t\t\t\t

\n\t\tLiz Mineo\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t

\n\t\t\tHarvard Staff Writer\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/address>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t

\n\t\t\t\u2018Surveillance is the business model of the internet,\u2019 Berkman and Belfer fellow says\t\t<\/h2>\n\t\t\n<\/header>\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\t\t

In the internet era, consumers seem increasingly resigned to giving up fundamental aspects of their privacy for convenience in using their phones and computers, and have grudgingly accepted that being monitored by corporations and even governments is just a fact of modern life. <\/em><\/p>\n

In fact, internet users in the United States have fewer privacy protections than those in other countries. In April, Congress voted to allow internet service providers to collect and sell their customers\u2019 browsing data. By contrast, the European Union hit Google this summer with a $2.7 billion antitrust fine.<\/em><\/p>\n

To assess the internet landscape, the Gazette interviewed cybersecurity expert Bruce Schneier, a fellow with the <\/em>Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society<\/em><\/a> and the <\/em>Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs<\/em><\/a> at <\/em>Harvard Kennedy School<\/em><\/a>. Schneier talked about government and corporate surveillance, and about what concerned users can do to protect their privacy. <\/em><\/p>\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> After whistleblower Edward Snowden\u2019s revelations concerning the National Security Agency\u2019s (NSA) mass surveillance operation in 2013, how much has the government landscape in this field changed?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Snowden\u2019s revelations made people aware of what was happening, but little changed as a result. The USA Freedom Act resulted in some minor changes in one particular government data-collection program. The NSA\u2019s data collection hasn\u2019t changed; the laws limiting what the NSA can do haven\u2019t changed; the technology that permits them to do it hasn\u2019t changed. It\u2019s pretty much the same.<\/p>\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should consumers be alarmed by this?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> People should be alarmed, both as consumers and as citizens. But today, what we care about is very dependent on what is in the news at the moment, and right now surveillance is not in the news. It was not an issue in the 2016 election, and by and large isn\u2019t something that legislators are willing to make a stand on. Snowden told his story, Congress passed a new law in response, and people moved on.<\/p>\n\r\n\t\n\n\t

\"\"
Graphic by Rebecca Coleman\/Harvard Staff\t\t\t<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\t\n\t\r\n\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> What about corporate surveillance? How pervasive is it?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Surveillance is the business model of the internet. Everyone is under constant surveillance by many companies, ranging from social networks like Facebook to cellphone providers. This data is collected, compiled, analyzed, and used to try to sell us stuff. Personalized advertising is how these companies make money, and is why so much of the internet is free to users. We\u2019re the product, not the customer.<\/p>\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should they be stopped?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> That\u2019s a philosophical question. Personally, I think that in many cases the answer is yes. It\u2019s a question of how much manipulation we allow in our society. Right now, the answer is basically anything goes. It wasn\u2019t always this way. In the 1970s, Congress passed a law to make a particular form of subliminal advertising illegal because it was believed to be morally wrong. That advertising technique is child\u2019s play compared to the kind of personalized manipulation that companies do today. The legal question is whether this kind of cyber-manipulation is an unfair and deceptive business practice, and, if so, can the Federal Trade Commission step in and prohibit a lot of these practices.<\/p>\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> Why doesn\u2019t the commission do that? Why is this intrusion happening, and nobody does anything about it?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> We\u2019re living in a world of low government effectiveness, and there the prevailing neo-liberal idea is that companies should be free to do what they want. Our system is optimized for companies that do everything that is legal to maximize profits, with little nod to morality. Shoshana Zuboff, professor at the Harvard Business School<\/a>, invented the term \u201csurveillance capitalism\u201d to describe what\u2019s happening. It\u2019s very profitable, and it feeds off the natural property of computers to produce data about what they are doing. For example, cellphones need to know where everyone is so they can deliver phone calls. As a result, they are ubiquitous surveillance devices beyond the wildest dreams of Cold War East Germany.<\/p>\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> But Google and Facebook face more restrictions in Europe than in the United States. Why is that?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Europe has more stringent privacy regulations than the United States. In general, Americans tend to mistrust government and trust corporations. Europeans tend to trust government and mistrust corporations. The result is that there are more controls over government surveillance in the U.S. than in Europe. On the other hand, Europe constrains its corporations to a much greater degree than the U.S. does. U.S. law has a hands-off way of treating internet companies. Computerized systems, for example, are exempt from many normal product-liability laws. This was originally done out of the fear of stifling innovation.<\/p>\n

\u201cGoogle knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.\u201d
\n\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0\u2014Bruce Schneier,<\/em> cybersecurity expert<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> It seems that U.S. customers are resigned to the idea of giving up their privacy in exchange for using Google and Facebook for free. What\u2019s your view on this?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> The survey data is mixed. Consumers are concerned about their privacy and don\u2019t like companies knowing their intimate secrets. But they feel powerless and are often resigned to the privacy invasions because they don\u2019t have any real choice. People need to own credit cards, carry cellphones, and have email addresses and social media accounts. That\u2019s what it takes to be a fully functioning human being in the early 21st century. This is why we need the government to step in.<\/p>\n

GAZETTE: <\/strong>You\u2019re one of the most well-known cybersecurity experts in the world. What do you do to protect your privacy online?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER: <\/strong>I don\u2019t have any secret techniques. I do the same things everyone else does, and I make the same tradeoffs that everybody else does. I bank online. I shop online. I carry a cellphone, and it\u2019s always turned on. I use credit cards and have airline frequent flier accounts. Perhaps the weirdest thing about my internet behavior is that I\u2019m not on any social media platforms. That might make me a freak, but honestly it\u2019s good for my productivity. In general, security experts aren\u2019t paranoid; we just have a better understanding of the trade-offs we\u2019re doing. Like everybody else, we regularly give up privacy for convenience. We just do it knowingly and consciously.<\/p>\n

GAZETTE: <\/strong>What else do you do to protect your privacy online? Do you use encryption for your email?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> I have come to the conclusion that email is fundamentally unsecurable. If I want to have a secure online conversation, I use an encrypted chat application like Signal. By and large, email security is out of our control. For example, I don\u2019t use Gmail because I don\u2019t want Google having all my email. But last time I checked, Google has half of my email because you all use Gmail.<\/p>\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> What does Google know about you?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Google\u2019s not saying because they know it would freak people out. But think about it, Google knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.<\/p>\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> Is Google the \u201cBig Brother?\u201d<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER: <\/strong>\u201cBig Brother\u201d in the Orwellian sense meant big government. That\u2019s not Google, and that\u2019s not even the NSA. What we have is many \u201cLittle Brothers\u201d: Google, Facebook, Verizon, etc. They have enormous amounts of data on everybody, and they want to monetize it. They don\u2019t want to respect your privacy.<\/p>\n

GAZETTE:<\/strong> In your book \u201cData and Goliath: The Hidden Battles to Collect Your Data and Control Your World,\u201d you recommend a few strategies for people to protect their privacy online. Which one is the most effective?<\/p>\n

SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Unfortunately, we live in a world where most of our data is out of our control. It\u2019s in the cloud, stored by companies that may not have our best interests at heart. So, while there are technical strategies people can employ to protect their privacy, they\u2019re mostly around the edges. The best recommendation I have for people is to get involved in the political process. The best thing we can do as consumers and citizens is to make this a political issue. Force our legislators to change the rules.<\/p>\n

Opting out doesn\u2019t work. It\u2019s nonsense to tell people not to carry a credit card or not to have an email address. And \u201cbuyer beware\u201d is putting too much onus on the individual. People don\u2019t test their food for pathogens or their airlines for safety. The government does it. But the government has failed in protecting consumers from internet companies and social media giants. But this will come around. The only effective way to control big corporations is through big government. My hope is that technologists also get involved in the political process \u2014 in government, in think-tanks, universities, and so on. That\u2019s where the real change will happen. I tend to be short-term pessimistic and long-term optimistic. I don\u2019t think this will do society in. This is not the first time we\u2019ve seen technological changes that threaten to undermine society, and it won\u2019t be the last.<\/p>\n

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n<\/div>\n\n\t\t","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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","mediaId":227981,"mediaSize":"full","mediaType":"image","mediaUrl":"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/071117_schneier_2835_605.jpg","poster":"","title":"On internet privacy, be very afraid","subheading":"\u2018Surveillance is the business model of the internet,\u2019 Berkman and Belfer fellow says","centeredImage":true,"className":"is-style-full-width-text-below","mediaHeight":403,"mediaWidth":605,"backgroundFixed":false,"backgroundTone":"light","coloredBackground":false,"displayOverlay":true,"fadeInText":false,"isAmbient":false,"mediaLength":"","mediaPosition":"","posterText":"","titleAbove":false,"useUncroppedImage":false,"lock":[],"metadata":[]},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img alt=\"\" height=\"403\" loading=\"eager\" src=\"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/071117_schneier_2835_605.jpg\" width=\"605\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><p class=\"wp-element-caption--caption\">Cybersecurity expert and Berkman Klein fellow Bruce Schneier talked to the Gazette about what consumers can do to protect themselves from government and corporate surveillance. <\/p><p class=\"wp-element-caption--credit\">Rose Lincoln\/Harvard Staff Photographer<\/p><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n","innerContent":["<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img alt=\"\" height=\"403\" loading=\"eager\" src=\"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/071117_schneier_2835_605.jpg\" width=\"605\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><p class=\"wp-element-caption--caption\">Cybersecurity expert and Berkman Klein fellow Bruce Schneier talked to the Gazette about what consumers can do to protect themselves from government and corporate surveillance. <\/p><p class=\"wp-element-caption--credit\">Rose Lincoln\/Harvard Staff Photographer<\/p><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n"],"rendered":"<header\n\tclass=\"wp-block-harvard-gazette-article-header alignfull article-header is-style-full-width-text-below centered-image\"\n\tstyle=\" \"\n>\n\t<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img alt=\"\" height=\"403\" loading=\"eager\" src=\"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/071117_schneier_2835_605.jpg\" width=\"605\"\/><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\"><p class=\"wp-element-caption--caption\">Cybersecurity expert and Berkman Klein fellow Bruce Schneier talked to the Gazette about what consumers can do to protect themselves from government and corporate surveillance. <\/p><p class=\"wp-element-caption--credit\">Rose Lincoln\/Harvard Staff Photographer<\/p><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\n\t<div class=\"article-header__content\">\n\t\t\t<a\n\t\t\tclass=\"article-header__category\"\n\t\t\thref=\"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/section\/business-economy\/\"\n\t\t>\n\t\t\tWork & Economy\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t\n\t\t<h1 class=\"article-header__title wp-block-heading \">\n\t\tOn internet privacy, be very afraid\t<\/h1>\n\n\t\n\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\n\t<div class=\"article-header__meta\">\n\t\t<div class=\"wp-block-post-author\">\n\t\t\t<address class=\"wp-block-post-author__content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<p class=\"author wp-block-post-author__name\">\n\t\tLiz Mineo\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t<p class=\"wp-block-post-author__byline\">\n\t\t\tHarvard Staff Writer\t\t<\/p>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/address>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\n\t\t<time class=\"article-header__date\" datetime=\"2017-08-24\">\n\t\t\tAugust 24, 2017\t\t<\/time>\n\n\t\t<span class=\"article-header__reading-time\">\n\t\t\t9 min read\t\t<\/span>\n\t<\/div>\n\n\t\n\t\t\t<h2 class=\"article-header__subheading wp-block-heading\">\n\t\t\t\u2018Surveillance is the business model of the internet,\u2019 Berkman and Belfer fellow says\t\t<\/h2>\n\t\t\n<\/header>\n"},"2":{"blockName":"core\/group","attrs":{"templateLock":false,"metadata":{"name":"Article content"},"align":"wide","layout":{"type":"constrained","justifyContent":"center"},"tagName":"div","lock":[],"className":"","style":[],"backgroundColor":"","textColor":"","gradient":"","fontSize":"","fontFamily":"","borderColor":"","ariaLabel":"","anchor":""},"innerBlocks":[{"blockName":"core\/freeform","attrs":{"content":"","lock":[],"metadata":[]},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\t\t<p><em>In the internet era, consumers seem increasingly resigned to giving up fundamental aspects of their privacy for convenience in using their phones and computers, and have grudgingly accepted that being monitored by corporations and even governments is just a fact of modern life. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>In fact, internet users in the United States have fewer privacy protections than those in other countries. In April, Congress voted to allow internet service providers to collect and sell their customers\u2019 browsing data. By contrast, the European Union hit Google this summer with a $2.7 billion antitrust fine.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>To assess the internet landscape, the Gazette interviewed cybersecurity expert Bruce Schneier, a fellow with the <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/cyber.harvard.edu\/\"><em>Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society<\/em><\/a><em> and the <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.belfercenter.org\/\"><em>Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs<\/em><\/a><em> at <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.hks.harvard.edu\/\"><em>Harvard Kennedy School<\/em><\/a><em>. Schneier talked about government and corporate surveillance, and about what concerned users can do to protect their privacy. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> After whistleblower Edward Snowden\u2019s revelations concerning the National Security Agency\u2019s (NSA) mass surveillance operation in 2013, how much has the government landscape in this field changed?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Snowden\u2019s revelations made people aware of what was happening, but little changed as a result. The USA Freedom Act resulted in some minor changes in one particular government data-collection program. The NSA\u2019s data collection hasn\u2019t changed; the laws limiting what the NSA can do haven\u2019t changed; the technology that permits them to do it hasn\u2019t changed. It\u2019s pretty much the same.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should consumers be alarmed by this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> People should be alarmed, both as consumers and as citizens. But today, what we care about is very dependent on what is in the news at the moment, and right now surveillance is not in the news. It was not an issue in the 2016 election, and by and large isn\u2019t something that legislators are willing to make a stand on. Snowden told his story, Congress passed a new law in response, and people moved on.<\/p>\n","innerContent":["\n\t\t<p><em>In the internet era, consumers seem increasingly resigned to giving up fundamental aspects of their privacy for convenience in using their phones and computers, and have grudgingly accepted that being monitored by corporations and even governments is just a fact of modern life. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>In fact, internet users in the United States have fewer privacy protections than those in other countries. In April, Congress voted to allow internet service providers to collect and sell their customers\u2019 browsing data. By contrast, the European Union hit Google this summer with a $2.7 billion antitrust fine.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>To assess the internet landscape, the Gazette interviewed cybersecurity expert Bruce Schneier, a fellow with the <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/cyber.harvard.edu\/\"><em>Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society<\/em><\/a><em> and the <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.belfercenter.org\/\"><em>Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs<\/em><\/a><em> at <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.hks.harvard.edu\/\"><em>Harvard Kennedy School<\/em><\/a><em>. Schneier talked about government and corporate surveillance, and about what concerned users can do to protect their privacy. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> After whistleblower Edward Snowden\u2019s revelations concerning the National Security Agency\u2019s (NSA) mass surveillance operation in 2013, how much has the government landscape in this field changed?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Snowden\u2019s revelations made people aware of what was happening, but little changed as a result. The USA Freedom Act resulted in some minor changes in one particular government data-collection program. The NSA\u2019s data collection hasn\u2019t changed; the laws limiting what the NSA can do haven\u2019t changed; the technology that permits them to do it hasn\u2019t changed. It\u2019s pretty much the same.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should consumers be alarmed by this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> People should be alarmed, both as consumers and as citizens. But today, what we care about is very dependent on what is in the news at the moment, and right now surveillance is not in the news. It was not an issue in the 2016 election, and by and large isn\u2019t something that legislators are willing to make a stand on. Snowden told his story, Congress passed a new law in response, and people moved on.<\/p>\n"],"rendered":"\n\t\t<p><em>In the internet era, consumers seem increasingly resigned to giving up fundamental aspects of their privacy for convenience in using their phones and computers, and have grudgingly accepted that being monitored by corporations and even governments is just a fact of modern life. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>In fact, internet users in the United States have fewer privacy protections than those in other countries. In April, Congress voted to allow internet service providers to collect and sell their customers\u2019 browsing data. By contrast, the European Union hit Google this summer with a $2.7 billion antitrust fine.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>To assess the internet landscape, the Gazette interviewed cybersecurity expert Bruce Schneier, a fellow with the <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/cyber.harvard.edu\/\"><em>Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society<\/em><\/a><em> and the <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.belfercenter.org\/\"><em>Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs<\/em><\/a><em> at <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.hks.harvard.edu\/\"><em>Harvard Kennedy School<\/em><\/a><em>. Schneier talked about government and corporate surveillance, and about what concerned users can do to protect their privacy. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> After whistleblower Edward Snowden\u2019s revelations concerning the National Security Agency\u2019s (NSA) mass surveillance operation in 2013, how much has the government landscape in this field changed?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Snowden\u2019s revelations made people aware of what was happening, but little changed as a result. The USA Freedom Act resulted in some minor changes in one particular government data-collection program. The NSA\u2019s data collection hasn\u2019t changed; the laws limiting what the NSA can do haven\u2019t changed; the technology that permits them to do it hasn\u2019t changed. It\u2019s pretty much the same.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should consumers be alarmed by this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> People should be alarmed, both as consumers and as citizens. But today, what we care about is very dependent on what is in the news at the moment, and right now surveillance is not in the news. It was not an issue in the 2016 election, and by and large isn\u2019t something that legislators are willing to make a stand on. Snowden told his story, Congress passed a new law in response, and people moved on.<\/p>\n"},{"blockName":"core\/image","attrs":{"sizeSlug":"full","align":"none","id":229298,"caption":"Graphic by Rebecca Coleman\/Harvard Staff","blob":"","url":"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/netprivacy_graphic.jpg","alt":"","lightbox":[],"title":"","href":"","rel":"","linkClass":"","width":"","height":"","aspectRatio":"","scale":"","linkDestination":"","linkTarget":"","lock":[],"metadata":[],"className":"","style":[],"borderColor":"","anchor":""},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n\n\t<figure class=\"wp-block-image alignnone size-full is-resized\"><img src=\"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/netprivacy_graphic.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-229298\"><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Graphic by Rebecca Coleman\/Harvard Staff\t\t\t<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\t","innerContent":["\n\n\t<figure class=\"wp-block-image alignnone size-full is-resized\"><img src=\"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/netprivacy_graphic.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-229298\"><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Graphic by Rebecca Coleman\/Harvard Staff\t\t\t<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\t"],"rendered":"\n\n\t<figure class=\"wp-block-image alignnone size-full is-resized\"><img src=\"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/netprivacy_graphic.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-229298\"><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Graphic by Rebecca Coleman\/Harvard Staff\t\t\t<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\t"},{"blockName":"core\/freeform","attrs":{"content":"","lock":[],"metadata":[]},"innerBlocks":[],"innerHTML":"\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> What about corporate surveillance? How pervasive is it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Surveillance is the business model of the internet. Everyone is under constant surveillance by many companies, ranging from social networks like Facebook to cellphone providers. This data is collected, compiled, analyzed, and used to try to sell us stuff. Personalized advertising is how these companies make money, and is why so much of the internet is free to users. We\u2019re the product, not the customer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should they be stopped?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> That\u2019s a philosophical question. Personally, I think that in many cases the answer is yes. It\u2019s a question of how much manipulation we allow in our society. Right now, the answer is basically anything goes. It wasn\u2019t always this way. In the 1970s, Congress passed a law to make a particular form of subliminal advertising illegal because it was believed to be morally wrong. That advertising technique is child\u2019s play compared to the kind of personalized manipulation that companies do today. The legal question is whether this kind of cyber-manipulation is an unfair and deceptive business practice, and, if so, can the Federal Trade Commission step in and prohibit a lot of these practices.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Why doesn\u2019t the commission do that? Why is this intrusion happening, and nobody does anything about it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> We\u2019re living in a world of low government effectiveness, and there the prevailing neo-liberal idea is that companies should be free to do what they want. Our system is optimized for companies that do everything that is legal to maximize profits, with little nod to morality. Shoshana Zuboff, professor at the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.hbs.edu\/Pages\/default.aspx\">Harvard Business School<\/a>, invented the term \u201csurveillance capitalism\u201d to describe what\u2019s happening. It\u2019s very profitable, and it feeds off the natural property of computers to produce data about what they are doing. For example, cellphones need to know where everyone is so they can deliver phone calls. As a result, they are ubiquitous surveillance devices beyond the wildest dreams of Cold War East Germany.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> But Google and Facebook face more restrictions in Europe than in the United States. Why is that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Europe has more stringent privacy regulations than the United States. In general, Americans tend to mistrust government and trust corporations. Europeans tend to trust government and mistrust corporations. The result is that there are more controls over government surveillance in the U.S. than in Europe. On the other hand, Europe constrains its corporations to a much greater degree than the U.S. does. U.S. law has a hands-off way of treating internet companies. Computerized systems, for example, are exempt from many normal product-liability laws. This was originally done out of the fear of stifling innovation.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cGoogle knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.\u201d<br \/>\n<em>\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0\u2014Bruce Schneier,<\/em> <em>cybersecurity expert<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> It seems that U.S. customers are resigned to the idea of giving up their privacy in exchange for using Google and Facebook for free. What\u2019s your view on this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> The survey data is mixed. Consumers are concerned about their privacy and don\u2019t like companies knowing their intimate secrets. But they feel powerless and are often resigned to the privacy invasions because they don\u2019t have any real choice. People need to own credit cards, carry cellphones, and have email addresses and social media accounts. That\u2019s what it takes to be a fully functioning human being in the early 21st century. This is why we need the government to step in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE: <\/strong>You\u2019re one of the most well-known cybersecurity experts in the world. What do you do to protect your privacy online?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER: <\/strong>I don\u2019t have any secret techniques. I do the same things everyone else does, and I make the same tradeoffs that everybody else does. I bank online. I shop online. I carry a cellphone, and it\u2019s always turned on. I use credit cards and have airline frequent flier accounts. Perhaps the weirdest thing about my internet behavior is that I\u2019m not on any social media platforms. That might make me a freak, but honestly it\u2019s good for my productivity. In general, security experts aren\u2019t paranoid; we just have a better understanding of the trade-offs we\u2019re doing. Like everybody else, we regularly give up privacy for convenience. We just do it knowingly and consciously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE: <\/strong>What else do you do to protect your privacy online? Do you use encryption for your email?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> I have come to the conclusion that email is fundamentally unsecurable. If I want to have a secure online conversation, I use an encrypted chat application like Signal. By and large, email security is out of our control. For example, I don\u2019t use Gmail because I don\u2019t want Google having all my email. But last time I checked, Google has half of my email because you all use Gmail.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> What does Google know about you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Google\u2019s not saying because they know it would freak people out. But think about it, Google knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Is Google the \u201cBig Brother?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER: <\/strong>\u201cBig Brother\u201d in the Orwellian sense meant big government. That\u2019s not Google, and that\u2019s not even the NSA. What we have is many \u201cLittle Brothers\u201d: Google, Facebook, Verizon, etc. They have enormous amounts of data on everybody, and they want to monetize it. They don\u2019t want to respect your privacy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> In your book \u201cData and Goliath: The Hidden Battles to Collect Your Data and Control Your World,\u201d you recommend a few strategies for people to protect their privacy online. Which one is the most effective?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Unfortunately, we live in a world where most of our data is out of our control. It\u2019s in the cloud, stored by companies that may not have our best interests at heart. So, while there are technical strategies people can employ to protect their privacy, they\u2019re mostly around the edges. The best recommendation I have for people is to get involved in the political process. The best thing we can do as consumers and citizens is to make this a political issue. Force our legislators to change the rules.<\/p>\n<p>Opting out doesn\u2019t work. It\u2019s nonsense to tell people not to carry a credit card or not to have an email address. And \u201cbuyer beware\u201d is putting too much onus on the individual. People don\u2019t test their food for pathogens or their airlines for safety. The government does it. But the government has failed in protecting consumers from internet companies and social media giants. But this will come around. The only effective way to control big corporations is through big government. My hope is that technologists also get involved in the political process \u2014 in government, in think-tanks, universities, and so on. That\u2019s where the real change will happen. I tend to be short-term pessimistic and long-term optimistic. I don\u2019t think this will do society in. This is not the first time we\u2019ve seen technological changes that threaten to undermine society, and it won\u2019t be the last.<\/p>\n<p><em>This interview has been edited for length and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n","innerContent":["\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> What about corporate surveillance? How pervasive is it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Surveillance is the business model of the internet. Everyone is under constant surveillance by many companies, ranging from social networks like Facebook to cellphone providers. This data is collected, compiled, analyzed, and used to try to sell us stuff. Personalized advertising is how these companies make money, and is why so much of the internet is free to users. We\u2019re the product, not the customer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should they be stopped?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> That\u2019s a philosophical question. Personally, I think that in many cases the answer is yes. It\u2019s a question of how much manipulation we allow in our society. Right now, the answer is basically anything goes. It wasn\u2019t always this way. In the 1970s, Congress passed a law to make a particular form of subliminal advertising illegal because it was believed to be morally wrong. That advertising technique is child\u2019s play compared to the kind of personalized manipulation that companies do today. The legal question is whether this kind of cyber-manipulation is an unfair and deceptive business practice, and, if so, can the Federal Trade Commission step in and prohibit a lot of these practices.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Why doesn\u2019t the commission do that? Why is this intrusion happening, and nobody does anything about it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> We\u2019re living in a world of low government effectiveness, and there the prevailing neo-liberal idea is that companies should be free to do what they want. Our system is optimized for companies that do everything that is legal to maximize profits, with little nod to morality. Shoshana Zuboff, professor at the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.hbs.edu\/Pages\/default.aspx\">Harvard Business School<\/a>, invented the term \u201csurveillance capitalism\u201d to describe what\u2019s happening. It\u2019s very profitable, and it feeds off the natural property of computers to produce data about what they are doing. For example, cellphones need to know where everyone is so they can deliver phone calls. As a result, they are ubiquitous surveillance devices beyond the wildest dreams of Cold War East Germany.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> But Google and Facebook face more restrictions in Europe than in the United States. Why is that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Europe has more stringent privacy regulations than the United States. In general, Americans tend to mistrust government and trust corporations. Europeans tend to trust government and mistrust corporations. The result is that there are more controls over government surveillance in the U.S. than in Europe. On the other hand, Europe constrains its corporations to a much greater degree than the U.S. does. U.S. law has a hands-off way of treating internet companies. Computerized systems, for example, are exempt from many normal product-liability laws. This was originally done out of the fear of stifling innovation.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cGoogle knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.\u201d<br \/>\n<em>\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0\u2014Bruce Schneier,<\/em> <em>cybersecurity expert<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> It seems that U.S. customers are resigned to the idea of giving up their privacy in exchange for using Google and Facebook for free. What\u2019s your view on this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> The survey data is mixed. Consumers are concerned about their privacy and don\u2019t like companies knowing their intimate secrets. But they feel powerless and are often resigned to the privacy invasions because they don\u2019t have any real choice. People need to own credit cards, carry cellphones, and have email addresses and social media accounts. That\u2019s what it takes to be a fully functioning human being in the early 21st century. This is why we need the government to step in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE: <\/strong>You\u2019re one of the most well-known cybersecurity experts in the world. What do you do to protect your privacy online?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER: <\/strong>I don\u2019t have any secret techniques. I do the same things everyone else does, and I make the same tradeoffs that everybody else does. I bank online. I shop online. I carry a cellphone, and it\u2019s always turned on. I use credit cards and have airline frequent flier accounts. Perhaps the weirdest thing about my internet behavior is that I\u2019m not on any social media platforms. That might make me a freak, but honestly it\u2019s good for my productivity. In general, security experts aren\u2019t paranoid; we just have a better understanding of the trade-offs we\u2019re doing. Like everybody else, we regularly give up privacy for convenience. We just do it knowingly and consciously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE: <\/strong>What else do you do to protect your privacy online? Do you use encryption for your email?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> I have come to the conclusion that email is fundamentally unsecurable. If I want to have a secure online conversation, I use an encrypted chat application like Signal. By and large, email security is out of our control. For example, I don\u2019t use Gmail because I don\u2019t want Google having all my email. But last time I checked, Google has half of my email because you all use Gmail.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> What does Google know about you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Google\u2019s not saying because they know it would freak people out. But think about it, Google knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Is Google the \u201cBig Brother?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER: <\/strong>\u201cBig Brother\u201d in the Orwellian sense meant big government. That\u2019s not Google, and that\u2019s not even the NSA. What we have is many \u201cLittle Brothers\u201d: Google, Facebook, Verizon, etc. They have enormous amounts of data on everybody, and they want to monetize it. They don\u2019t want to respect your privacy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> In your book \u201cData and Goliath: The Hidden Battles to Collect Your Data and Control Your World,\u201d you recommend a few strategies for people to protect their privacy online. Which one is the most effective?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Unfortunately, we live in a world where most of our data is out of our control. It\u2019s in the cloud, stored by companies that may not have our best interests at heart. So, while there are technical strategies people can employ to protect their privacy, they\u2019re mostly around the edges. The best recommendation I have for people is to get involved in the political process. The best thing we can do as consumers and citizens is to make this a political issue. Force our legislators to change the rules.<\/p>\n<p>Opting out doesn\u2019t work. It\u2019s nonsense to tell people not to carry a credit card or not to have an email address. And \u201cbuyer beware\u201d is putting too much onus on the individual. People don\u2019t test their food for pathogens or their airlines for safety. The government does it. But the government has failed in protecting consumers from internet companies and social media giants. But this will come around. The only effective way to control big corporations is through big government. My hope is that technologists also get involved in the political process \u2014 in government, in think-tanks, universities, and so on. That\u2019s where the real change will happen. I tend to be short-term pessimistic and long-term optimistic. I don\u2019t think this will do society in. This is not the first time we\u2019ve seen technological changes that threaten to undermine society, and it won\u2019t be the last.<\/p>\n<p><em>This interview has been edited for length and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n"],"rendered":"\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> What about corporate surveillance? How pervasive is it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Surveillance is the business model of the internet. Everyone is under constant surveillance by many companies, ranging from social networks like Facebook to cellphone providers. This data is collected, compiled, analyzed, and used to try to sell us stuff. Personalized advertising is how these companies make money, and is why so much of the internet is free to users. We\u2019re the product, not the customer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should they be stopped?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> That\u2019s a philosophical question. Personally, I think that in many cases the answer is yes. It\u2019s a question of how much manipulation we allow in our society. Right now, the answer is basically anything goes. It wasn\u2019t always this way. In the 1970s, Congress passed a law to make a particular form of subliminal advertising illegal because it was believed to be morally wrong. That advertising technique is child\u2019s play compared to the kind of personalized manipulation that companies do today. The legal question is whether this kind of cyber-manipulation is an unfair and deceptive business practice, and, if so, can the Federal Trade Commission step in and prohibit a lot of these practices.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Why doesn\u2019t the commission do that? Why is this intrusion happening, and nobody does anything about it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> We\u2019re living in a world of low government effectiveness, and there the prevailing neo-liberal idea is that companies should be free to do what they want. Our system is optimized for companies that do everything that is legal to maximize profits, with little nod to morality. Shoshana Zuboff, professor at the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.hbs.edu\/Pages\/default.aspx\">Harvard Business School<\/a>, invented the term \u201csurveillance capitalism\u201d to describe what\u2019s happening. It\u2019s very profitable, and it feeds off the natural property of computers to produce data about what they are doing. For example, cellphones need to know where everyone is so they can deliver phone calls. As a result, they are ubiquitous surveillance devices beyond the wildest dreams of Cold War East Germany.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> But Google and Facebook face more restrictions in Europe than in the United States. Why is that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Europe has more stringent privacy regulations than the United States. In general, Americans tend to mistrust government and trust corporations. Europeans tend to trust government and mistrust corporations. The result is that there are more controls over government surveillance in the U.S. than in Europe. On the other hand, Europe constrains its corporations to a much greater degree than the U.S. does. U.S. law has a hands-off way of treating internet companies. Computerized systems, for example, are exempt from many normal product-liability laws. This was originally done out of the fear of stifling innovation.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cGoogle knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.\u201d<br \/>\n<em>\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0\u2014Bruce Schneier,<\/em> <em>cybersecurity expert<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> It seems that U.S. customers are resigned to the idea of giving up their privacy in exchange for using Google and Facebook for free. What\u2019s your view on this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> The survey data is mixed. Consumers are concerned about their privacy and don\u2019t like companies knowing their intimate secrets. But they feel powerless and are often resigned to the privacy invasions because they don\u2019t have any real choice. People need to own credit cards, carry cellphones, and have email addresses and social media accounts. That\u2019s what it takes to be a fully functioning human being in the early 21st century. This is why we need the government to step in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE: <\/strong>You\u2019re one of the most well-known cybersecurity experts in the world. What do you do to protect your privacy online?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER: <\/strong>I don\u2019t have any secret techniques. I do the same things everyone else does, and I make the same tradeoffs that everybody else does. I bank online. I shop online. I carry a cellphone, and it\u2019s always turned on. I use credit cards and have airline frequent flier accounts. Perhaps the weirdest thing about my internet behavior is that I\u2019m not on any social media platforms. That might make me a freak, but honestly it\u2019s good for my productivity. In general, security experts aren\u2019t paranoid; we just have a better understanding of the trade-offs we\u2019re doing. Like everybody else, we regularly give up privacy for convenience. We just do it knowingly and consciously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE: <\/strong>What else do you do to protect your privacy online? Do you use encryption for your email?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> I have come to the conclusion that email is fundamentally unsecurable. If I want to have a secure online conversation, I use an encrypted chat application like Signal. By and large, email security is out of our control. For example, I don\u2019t use Gmail because I don\u2019t want Google having all my email. But last time I checked, Google has half of my email because you all use Gmail.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> What does Google know about you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Google\u2019s not saying because they know it would freak people out. But think about it, Google knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Is Google the \u201cBig Brother?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER: <\/strong>\u201cBig Brother\u201d in the Orwellian sense meant big government. That\u2019s not Google, and that\u2019s not even the NSA. What we have is many \u201cLittle Brothers\u201d: Google, Facebook, Verizon, etc. They have enormous amounts of data on everybody, and they want to monetize it. They don\u2019t want to respect your privacy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> In your book \u201cData and Goliath: The Hidden Battles to Collect Your Data and Control Your World,\u201d you recommend a few strategies for people to protect their privacy online. Which one is the most effective?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Unfortunately, we live in a world where most of our data is out of our control. It\u2019s in the cloud, stored by companies that may not have our best interests at heart. So, while there are technical strategies people can employ to protect their privacy, they\u2019re mostly around the edges. The best recommendation I have for people is to get involved in the political process. The best thing we can do as consumers and citizens is to make this a political issue. Force our legislators to change the rules.<\/p>\n<p>Opting out doesn\u2019t work. It\u2019s nonsense to tell people not to carry a credit card or not to have an email address. And \u201cbuyer beware\u201d is putting too much onus on the individual. People don\u2019t test their food for pathogens or their airlines for safety. The government does it. But the government has failed in protecting consumers from internet companies and social media giants. But this will come around. The only effective way to control big corporations is through big government. My hope is that technologists also get involved in the political process \u2014 in government, in think-tanks, universities, and so on. That\u2019s where the real change will happen. I tend to be short-term pessimistic and long-term optimistic. I don\u2019t think this will do society in. This is not the first time we\u2019ve seen technological changes that threaten to undermine society, and it won\u2019t be the last.<\/p>\n<p><em>This interview has been edited for length and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n"}],"innerHTML":"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide\">\n\n\r\n\t\n\t\r\n\n\n<\/div>\n","innerContent":["\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide\">\n\n","\r\n\t","\n\t\r\n","\n\n<\/div>\n"],"rendered":"\n<div class=\"wp-block-group alignwide has-global-padding is-content-justification-center is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n\n\n\t\t<p><em>In the internet era, consumers seem increasingly resigned to giving up fundamental aspects of their privacy for convenience in using their phones and computers, and have grudgingly accepted that being monitored by corporations and even governments is just a fact of modern life. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>In fact, internet users in the United States have fewer privacy protections than those in other countries. In April, Congress voted to allow internet service providers to collect and sell their customers\u2019 browsing data. By contrast, the European Union hit Google this summer with a $2.7 billion antitrust fine.<\/em><\/p>\n<p><em>To assess the internet landscape, the Gazette interviewed cybersecurity expert Bruce Schneier, a fellow with the <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/cyber.harvard.edu\/\"><em>Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society<\/em><\/a><em> and the <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/www.belfercenter.org\/\"><em>Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs<\/em><\/a><em> at <\/em><a href=\"https:\/\/www.hks.harvard.edu\/\"><em>Harvard Kennedy School<\/em><\/a><em>. Schneier talked about government and corporate surveillance, and about what concerned users can do to protect their privacy. <\/em><\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> After whistleblower Edward Snowden\u2019s revelations concerning the National Security Agency\u2019s (NSA) mass surveillance operation in 2013, how much has the government landscape in this field changed?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Snowden\u2019s revelations made people aware of what was happening, but little changed as a result. The USA Freedom Act resulted in some minor changes in one particular government data-collection program. The NSA\u2019s data collection hasn\u2019t changed; the laws limiting what the NSA can do haven\u2019t changed; the technology that permits them to do it hasn\u2019t changed. It\u2019s pretty much the same.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should consumers be alarmed by this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> People should be alarmed, both as consumers and as citizens. But today, what we care about is very dependent on what is in the news at the moment, and right now surveillance is not in the news. It was not an issue in the 2016 election, and by and large isn\u2019t something that legislators are willing to make a stand on. Snowden told his story, Congress passed a new law in response, and people moved on.<\/p>\n\r\n\t\n\n\t<figure class=\"wp-block-image alignnone size-full is-resized\"><img src=\"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/07\/netprivacy_graphic.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-229298\"><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">Graphic by Rebecca Coleman\/Harvard Staff\t\t\t<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n\t\n\t\r\n\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> What about corporate surveillance? How pervasive is it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Surveillance is the business model of the internet. Everyone is under constant surveillance by many companies, ranging from social networks like Facebook to cellphone providers. This data is collected, compiled, analyzed, and used to try to sell us stuff. Personalized advertising is how these companies make money, and is why so much of the internet is free to users. We\u2019re the product, not the customer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Should they be stopped?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> That\u2019s a philosophical question. Personally, I think that in many cases the answer is yes. It\u2019s a question of how much manipulation we allow in our society. Right now, the answer is basically anything goes. It wasn\u2019t always this way. In the 1970s, Congress passed a law to make a particular form of subliminal advertising illegal because it was believed to be morally wrong. That advertising technique is child\u2019s play compared to the kind of personalized manipulation that companies do today. The legal question is whether this kind of cyber-manipulation is an unfair and deceptive business practice, and, if so, can the Federal Trade Commission step in and prohibit a lot of these practices.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Why doesn\u2019t the commission do that? Why is this intrusion happening, and nobody does anything about it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> We\u2019re living in a world of low government effectiveness, and there the prevailing neo-liberal idea is that companies should be free to do what they want. Our system is optimized for companies that do everything that is legal to maximize profits, with little nod to morality. Shoshana Zuboff, professor at the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.hbs.edu\/Pages\/default.aspx\">Harvard Business School<\/a>, invented the term \u201csurveillance capitalism\u201d to describe what\u2019s happening. It\u2019s very profitable, and it feeds off the natural property of computers to produce data about what they are doing. For example, cellphones need to know where everyone is so they can deliver phone calls. As a result, they are ubiquitous surveillance devices beyond the wildest dreams of Cold War East Germany.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> But Google and Facebook face more restrictions in Europe than in the United States. Why is that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Europe has more stringent privacy regulations than the United States. In general, Americans tend to mistrust government and trust corporations. Europeans tend to trust government and mistrust corporations. The result is that there are more controls over government surveillance in the U.S. than in Europe. On the other hand, Europe constrains its corporations to a much greater degree than the U.S. does. U.S. law has a hands-off way of treating internet companies. Computerized systems, for example, are exempt from many normal product-liability laws. This was originally done out of the fear of stifling innovation.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cGoogle knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.\u201d<br \/>\n<em>\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0\u2014Bruce Schneier,<\/em> <em>cybersecurity expert<\/em><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> It seems that U.S. customers are resigned to the idea of giving up their privacy in exchange for using Google and Facebook for free. What\u2019s your view on this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> The survey data is mixed. Consumers are concerned about their privacy and don\u2019t like companies knowing their intimate secrets. But they feel powerless and are often resigned to the privacy invasions because they don\u2019t have any real choice. People need to own credit cards, carry cellphones, and have email addresses and social media accounts. That\u2019s what it takes to be a fully functioning human being in the early 21st century. This is why we need the government to step in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE: <\/strong>You\u2019re one of the most well-known cybersecurity experts in the world. What do you do to protect your privacy online?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER: <\/strong>I don\u2019t have any secret techniques. I do the same things everyone else does, and I make the same tradeoffs that everybody else does. I bank online. I shop online. I carry a cellphone, and it\u2019s always turned on. I use credit cards and have airline frequent flier accounts. Perhaps the weirdest thing about my internet behavior is that I\u2019m not on any social media platforms. That might make me a freak, but honestly it\u2019s good for my productivity. In general, security experts aren\u2019t paranoid; we just have a better understanding of the trade-offs we\u2019re doing. Like everybody else, we regularly give up privacy for convenience. We just do it knowingly and consciously.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE: <\/strong>What else do you do to protect your privacy online? Do you use encryption for your email?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> I have come to the conclusion that email is fundamentally unsecurable. If I want to have a secure online conversation, I use an encrypted chat application like Signal. By and large, email security is out of our control. For example, I don\u2019t use Gmail because I don\u2019t want Google having all my email. But last time I checked, Google has half of my email because you all use Gmail.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> What does Google know about you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Google\u2019s not saying because they know it would freak people out. But think about it, Google knows quite a lot about all of us. No one ever lies to a search engine. I used to say that Google knows more about me than my wife does, but that doesn\u2019t go far enough. Google knows me even better, because Google has perfect memory in a way that people don\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> Is Google the \u201cBig Brother?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER: <\/strong>\u201cBig Brother\u201d in the Orwellian sense meant big government. That\u2019s not Google, and that\u2019s not even the NSA. What we have is many \u201cLittle Brothers\u201d: Google, Facebook, Verizon, etc. They have enormous amounts of data on everybody, and they want to monetize it. They don\u2019t want to respect your privacy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>GAZETTE:<\/strong> In your book \u201cData and Goliath: The Hidden Battles to Collect Your Data and Control Your World,\u201d you recommend a few strategies for people to protect their privacy online. Which one is the most effective?<\/p>\n<p><strong>SCHNEIER:<\/strong> Unfortunately, we live in a world where most of our data is out of our control. It\u2019s in the cloud, stored by companies that may not have our best interests at heart. So, while there are technical strategies people can employ to protect their privacy, they\u2019re mostly around the edges. The best recommendation I have for people is to get involved in the political process. The best thing we can do as consumers and citizens is to make this a political issue. Force our legislators to change the rules.<\/p>\n<p>Opting out doesn\u2019t work. It\u2019s nonsense to tell people not to carry a credit card or not to have an email address. And \u201cbuyer beware\u201d is putting too much onus on the individual. People don\u2019t test their food for pathogens or their airlines for safety. The government does it. But the government has failed in protecting consumers from internet companies and social media giants. But this will come around. The only effective way to control big corporations is through big government. My hope is that technologists also get involved in the political process \u2014 in government, in think-tanks, universities, and so on. That\u2019s where the real change will happen. I tend to be short-term pessimistic and long-term optimistic. I don\u2019t think this will do society in. This is not the first time we\u2019ve seen technological changes that threaten to undermine society, and it won\u2019t be the last.<\/p>\n<p><em>This interview has been edited for length and clarity.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n<\/div>\n"}},"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":423190,"url":"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/story\/2026\/02\/worried-about-how-ai-may-affect-foreign-policy-you-should-be\/","url_meta":{"origin":227978,"position":0},"title":"Worried about how AI may affect foreign policy? 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MacArthur Foundation has awarded the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard Law School a $4 million gift in support of the center\u2019s second decade. This is the single largest gift from a foundation in the Berkman Center\u2019s history.","rel":"","context":"In "Campus & Community"","block_context":{"text":"Campus & Community","link":"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/section\/campus-community\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":393143,"url":"https:\/\/news.harvard.edu\/gazette\/story\/2024\/09\/youd-never-fall-for-an-online-scam-right\/","url_meta":{"origin":227978,"position":3},"title":"You\u2019d never fall for an online scam, right?","author":"Liz Mineo","date":"September 27, 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"Wrong, says cybersecurity expert. 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